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[nikitanain]

There is no doubt that flowerhorns are beautiful, but why are they so expensive?

Option 1 - Are they expensive because they are hybrids?

Option 2 -Are they expensive because the breeding methods used, cost the breeders a lot of money?

Option 3 - Are they expensive because there is demand for this fish and people are ready to spend $200 - $1000 on them

Option 4 - Any other reason, please specify..

I made this thread to get your opinions, what makes flowerhorns so expensive?

I choose option 3

This post has been edited by nikitanain: Jun 26 2009, 06:00 PM

[beantickler]

#1 it takes years to make the fish u see today... #2 FH farms r big and expensive to maintain. #3 is yes they r beautiful and every1 wants them so the people will pay the $$$ for them.

[jb12288]

I would say option 3. They arent hard to breed so I dont think option 2 would be it. I dont think it is because they are hybrids, I wouldnt pay a dime for a red devil/midas hybrid.

[Dynamyte]

#1 I will dismiss this one because most of the breeders already start with a good breeding stock of Fh's. KK breeder already had kamfa's MR.Tan already had KK and Red Dragon and many more.

I will go with #3.

[Round Head]

They are expensive because they are unique.
None of them are the same and their special features are difficult to mass produce.
Having a fish with big kok, nice body, color, pearls, flower patter, and big fins are hard to come by.

[Gage]

They are expensive because some JoeBlow decided what is a good and bad trait, and you pay more for the ones that have good traits because they are somehow a "better" fish.

you pay for the qualities someone else thought were best...

[Round Head]

They are expensive because some JoeBlow decided what is a good and bad trait, and you pay more for the ones that have good traits because they are somehow a "better" fish.

you pay for the qualities someone else thought were best...

Your statement is absolutely NOT True.
Just because you don't care about any particular traits doesn't mean the hobby shouldn't have a common preference.
That is why they are expensive because the majority of the hobbiest like those particular traits and willing to pay the high price. If everybody are as leanient as you, then nothing matters, every single fish in a spawn are MPs and all fish will be the same price. But looking on the bright side, the hobby is very good for those who don't care about FH traits because culls are dirt cheap and plentiful.

[choyadgreat]

they are expensive 'coz only a few in a batch of fry turn out with desirable traits(kok potentail, pearls, body and color)... The rest look like crap and need to be culled... :-)

[big_kok]

#4 because of their Kokkkh.

[the godfather]

I CHOOSE # 1,2 & 3 because thats the reason why flowerhorns are so expensive,right?
everyone must agree to that.

[nikitanain]

#1 it takes years to make the fish u see today... #2 FH farms r big and expensive to maintain. #3 is yes they r beautiful and every1 wants them so the people will pay the $$$ for them.

The fh breeders have obviously got monetary profits from what they have created in the past few years, but the FH available these days like standard ZZ are bred using only 2 Fh right? so the costs should be lower for standard FH unless a new strain is created and a lot of hardwork is put in creating a NEW strain...

Unless the breeder uses hormones to feed the fish (which I believe is expensive) the KOK, pearls and finnage come directly from the parents... so why the extra $$$ for creating a perfect fish... Other naturally occurring fish have a lot of good traits also, but they cost a lot lesser, like the red devil and the Midas...

Fish farms may be big and expensive to maintain but the cost of living is much cheaper in Thailand and if they sell each fish for $100 - $500, they will not only be covering up for the costs but they will also be making a huge profit! Imagine the money made by selling 300 - 500 x $150 fish every year!

Once again I am just trying to figure out why flowerhorns are so expensive in a logical way and I do not mean to upset anyone...

This post has been edited by nikitanain: Jun 27 2009, 06:37 AM

[nikitanain]

They are expensive because some JoeBlow decided what is a good and bad trait, and you pay more for the ones that have good traits because they are somehow a "better" fish.

you pay for the qualities someone else thought were best...

Gage I agree with you that the "better fish" get sold for a higher rate because some people are ready to spend a lot of $$ on the fish and hence the sellers realize there are buyers for the fish who can spend a lot of dough on the fish.. and the rest of the people who cannot afford the expensive fish are stuck with lower quality fish....

[Underthesea]

It's all about Supply and Demand...
If the supply is low, and the demand is high, prices will sky rocket..

About what is MP or not.. it's in the eye of the beholder.. Some people will like
their fish with huge kok, some don't.. and some like very colorful and some don't care.

The whole thing boils down to... If there's a demand and popularity of something and if people
are willing to pay for it.. then the prices will stay up there.
If tomorrow we all decide flowerhorns are ugly and no one wants to own it.. Im sure the fish farmers
can't even get rid of them even for FREE.

I read a story somewhere about flowerhorns, how when it first came out, every single family/business owner
MUST have one..cause their belief of the fish bringing 'Luck/wealth'... Prices for flowerhorns were up in the thousands US dollars.. And when the 'Phase' died off and when there were plenty of flowerhorns around, people were getting rid of them
left and right.. Some people even threw them in rivers... some flowerhorn farmers went out of business cause their supply is so high and the demand was gone...

So the moral of the story is... pay for fish that YOU want to pay for.. be it very expensive or not..

[nikitanain]

very interesting.. any other opinions?

[Gage]

Your statement is absolutely NOT True.
Just because you don't care about any particular traits doesn't mean the hobby shouldn't have a common preference.
That is why they are expensive because the majority of the hobbiest like those particular traits and willing to pay the high price. If everybody are as leanient as you, then nothing matters, every single fish in a spawn are MPs and all fish will be the same price. But looking on the bright side, the hobby is very good for those who don't care about FH traits because culls are dirt cheap and plentiful.

and these common preferences in the hobby were likely forced into peoples brains because of all the MP's they see listed having certain traits, eventually the human mind will start to make you believe that one trait is better then the other because every MP you see has it. it changes the people state of mind. I used to absolutely hate the look of nuchal humps on fish, but people constantly criticizing the size of my fish, whether it be the nuchal hump, color, pearl etc. is what made me get a flowerhorn with. I am 100% sure I'm not the only one like this.

and let me ask you then RH, who decided what a good or bad trait is? is that person decided that a good trait was to have a long slender body and no kok back in the days of flowerhorns, that would likely be what stuck to this day. As the "traits of an MP" was not just recently created.

what I'm saying is, it was the creators of the flowerhorns that decided what traits a flowerhorn should have, and people pay for the traits they were told were good.

therefore, the meaning of MP is completely opinion based as well, everyone on this site has there own version of a perfect fish, so it would be an MP for them. 1 mans trash is another mans treasure so to speak.

Very simple lesson for everyone to learn: QUALITY = OPINION, its that simple, I don't have 2 rats asses who disagrees with me, it is that plain and simple truth. everything to do with looks is a matter of opinion, whether it be flowerhorns, women, dogs, houses, whatever.

Now when I post my fish I will post my fish in the MP section from now on, under MY MP's.

This post has been edited by Gage: Jul 1 2009, 04:19 PM

[Round Head]

Gage, let me ask you a simple basic question.
Since the beginning of time, the name Flowerhorn was given to these hybrids.
What does Flowerhorn mean to you?
And why do you think the originator coined the name "Flower" "Horn"?
If you can't answer this, you're in the wrong hobby.

But I really like your take on this issue because you should have more choices for fish and at rock bottom prices too. As a matter of fact, there maybe alot of free fish.
Do you know how many kokless fish with no color and a drop tail being born each day? There are millions of them and the majority of them would end up as fertilizer or feeders. In a sense, your MPs are limiteless compared to the rest of the hobbiests who may have a life long search for that one perfect MP with monster kok, pearls from the top of kok to the tip of tail, and all over that massive square body reaching fully out to the big fat wrap tail.

[danz]

Option 1 - Are they expensive because they are hybrids?

Correct and every breeder has their own formula as well they own styling that no other breeder has so the old saying applies "He who has the gold makes the rules"

Option 2 -Are they expensive because the breeding methods used, cost the breeders a lot of money?

This also is a large factor since a majority of the fry from a batch are not worth anything and if you can only resell 10-20% you have to produce lots of fish to pay for the bills. Breeders like ILC have 3-4 separate farms which needs to be staffed, food for all the fish (pellet and live), water, and electricity for all the tanks this adds up. Now of course its not as much as doing in the USA and overhead is a lot less BUT they regardless they still have those bills. I believe ILC water bill runs about $1,000 a month and this is just 1 aspect of the breeding. Since flowerhors are also so aggressive they require more tanks and space to raise the fish which unlike pure cichlid breeders get almost 100% marketable product they also can keep fish together in ponds and grow out tanks so they can sell for much less.

Option 3 - Are they expensive because there is demand for this fish and people are ready to spend $200 - $1000 on them

A fish is only worth what somebody will pay for it.

Option 4 - Any other reason, please specify..

You have to also think since flowerhorns are a hybrid they are one of a kind like a peice of art and no 2 are alike so even though you can buy a print of a famous picture there are 10,000 people with that and there for not worth very much.

[Gage]

What does Flowerhorn mean to you?
to me? a flowerhorn is nothing more then a selectively bred hybrid, bred for certain traits that the creators of flowerhorns found to be attractive parts of a cichlid.


And why do you think the originator coined the name "Flower" "Horn"?
flower = the black markings on the side of the fish and horn refers to the fishes nuchal hump.

if you wanna go by this for quality every free marking flowerhorn is a low quality fish.

But I really like your take on this issue because you should have more choices for fish and at rock bottom prices too. As a matter of fact, there maybe alot of free fish.

hey, where did I state that I didn't have certain qualities that I personally like, not once did I state I like the looks of all flowerhorns, I simply implied that IMO quality is completely opinion based, doesn't mean I don't look for certain traits I like myself, but yes, I have a much easier time then other selecting fish from my LFS, even though he finally started bringing in from Thailand. I don't choose judging on this so called "common qualities", I pick the one I like the most in the batch, I choose my own favorite qualities, not the qualities other people tell me to.

I would like to mention I am not trying to start fights, simply trying to learn as much as I can, and debates help a lot.

A fish is only worth what somebody will pay for it.

I like this statement.

This post has been edited by Gage: Jul 1 2009, 10:04 PM

[Round Head]

Of course everybody have a variety of preference. Some like double flower lines, some like single flower line, some like flowerless, some like faded, some like red, some like small pearls, some like armor plated pearls, some like inset eyes, some like big tails, etc...
But the basic core beauty for these fish are pretty much universal.
Take two fish with identical markings, color, body shape, and finnage.
One fish with kok and another is flat-headed. So which fish is most preferable?
An MP FH must have a big kok, not nessarily a monster kok, but a pretty big kok, then follow by the overall body structure of the fish with pearls, color, and, markings to ballance out. That is the beauty of it and not too many fish are MPs with those qualities; that is why some fish are expensive.
A person can love their fish and call it a priceless MP eventhough it does not have any of those qualities; however the general census will disagree. And people need to respect that. Any parents with disability children will tell you that they love their "special" child. But that doesn't mean the general public has to say that child is pretty or handsome.

That is why I disagree with your reply to the question on this thread.
Sellers and breeders don't tell the buyers which fish is pretty or not.
It is the buyers who tell the sellers and breeders which fish is pretty and which is not by way of purchasing power.
Some people may not agree that a particular fish is an MP but most people will agree that a particular fish is not an MP.

[IamPINOY]

for me, it will only become expensive if it has a good and nice feature... obviously, u aint buy a bad looking fish in a costly price.... ryt? the keyword here is the "beauty" of flowerhorn... not bcoz of it being a hybrid, the breeding procedure nor the farm where it came frm... it is the "beauty", its "attractiveness" that makes it expensive/costly...